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Jun. 5th, 2013

А расскажите мне пожалуйста, откуда вообще взялся на играх по Толкину конфликт эльфов и людей плана, как писал недавно Ринглин, "мы тут не знаем, живем на своей земле, эльфы нам не нужны, это они нас позвали"? Или что "ааа, они припёрлись, это наши земли, а они еще и бессмертные, гады такие"?
Глядя на прочитаные мною тексты, я даже намёка на такое не вижу. Я чего-то пропустила?
Да, под людьми имеются в виду три племени эдайн, конечно же.
И да, я понимаю, откуда у человека из нашего мира могут взяться такие мысли. Мне интеренсно, основаны они на чем-то из того мира или нет.


( 5 comments — Leave a comment )
Jun. 5th, 2013 06:59 pm (UTC)
Немного есть.
But many Men remained in Estolad, and there was still a mingled people living there long years after, until in the ruin of Beleriand they were overwhelmed or fled back into the East. For beside the old who deemed that their wandering days were over there were not a few who desired to go their own ways, and they feared the Eldar and the light of their eyes; and then dissensions awoke among the Edain, in which the shadow of Morgoth may be discerned, for certain it is that he knew of the coming of Men into Beleriand and of their growing friendship with the Elves.
The leaders of discontent were Bereg of the house of Bëor, and Amlach, one of the grandsons of Marach; and they said openly: 'We took long roads, desiring to escape the perils of Middle-earth and the dark things that dwell there; for we heard that there was Light in the West. But now we learn that the Light is beyond the Sea. Thither we cannot come where the Gods dwell in bliss. Save one; for the Lord of the Dark is here before us, and the Eldar, wise but fell, who make endless war upon him. In the North he dwells, they say; and there is the pain and death from which we fled. We will not go that way.'
Then a council and assembly of Men was called, and great numbers came together. And the Elf-friends answered Bereg, saying: 'Truly from the Dark King come all the evils from which we fled; but he seeks dominion over all Middle-earth, and whither now shall we turn and he will not pursue us? Unless he be vanquished here, or at least held in leaguer. Only by the valour of the Eldar is he restrained, and maybe it was for this purpose, to aid them at need, that we were brought into this land.'
To this Bereg answered: 'Let the Eldar look to it! Our lives are short enough.' But there arose one who seemed to all to be Amlach son of Imlach, speaking fell words that shook the hearts of all who heard him: 'All this is but Elvish lore, tales to beguile newcomers that are unwary. The Sea has no shore. There is no Light in the West. You have followed a fool-fire of the Elves to the end of the world! Which of you has seen the least of the Gods? Who has beheld the Dark King in the North? Those who seek the dominion of Middle-earth are the Eldar. Greedy for wealth they have delved in the earth for its secrets and have stirred to wrath the things that dwell beneath it, as they have ever done and ever shall. Let the Orcs have the realm that is theirs, and we will have ours. There is room in the world, if the Eldar will let us be!'
Then those that listened sat for a while astounded, and a shadow of fear fell on their hearts; and they resolved to depart far from the lands of the Eldar. But afterwards Amlach returned among them, and denied that he had been present at their debate or had spoken such words as they reported; and there was doubt and bewilderment among Men. Then the Elf-friends said: 'You will now believe this at least: there is indeed a Dark Lord, and his spies and emissaries are among us; for he fears us, and the strength that we may give to his foes.'
But some still answered: 'He hates us, rather, and ever the more the longer we dwell here, meddling in his quarrel with the Kings of the Eldar, to no gain of ours.' Many therefore of those that yet remained in Estolad made ready to depart; and Bereg led a thousand of the people of Bëor away southwards, and they passed out of the songs of those days. But Amlach repented, saying: 'I have now a quarrel of my own with this Master of Lies, which will last to my life's end'; and he went away north and entered the service of Maedhros. But those of his people who were of like mind with Bereg chose a new leader, and they went back over the mountains into Eriador, and are forgotten.
(Сильм, глава 17).
Jun. 5th, 2013 07:15 pm (UTC)
Хм, да, забыла про этот момент.
Но тут прямо очень педалируется, что это всё от Моргота и чёткие люди так не поступают)
Jun. 5th, 2013 07:24 pm (UTC)
Частично от Моргота, частично и от себя было - тот же Берег вот сам по себе.
Ну и плюс в Атрабет было, что многие эльфы к людям с презрением относились, дескать понаехали тут всякие, дохнут как тараканы, а туда же. Люди на это обижались.

Edited at 2013-06-05 07:26 pm (UTC)
Jun. 5th, 2013 08:44 pm (UTC)
Я не знаю, что там по текстам
но я бы людей толкина если бы играла, то только так.
Jun. 6th, 2013 05:48 am (UTC)
( 5 comments — Leave a comment )